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OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

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Lisa Salberg Find out more about Lisa Salberg
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  • Virginia
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Burt I agree with the rights of a person. I disagree with the representation in the Olympics for Government and Country at the expense of life.

    If the Governement is footing the bill etc., I guess they have the right to deny entry. Unless of course it is a well informed decision. So I agree but I don't.

    Yes this one is beatened to a pulp. The fact is I agree but I disagree to a point. I value life. So I am on both sides of the coin...........

    Leave a comment:


  • mtlieb
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    LoL...

    Have we beaten yet another dead horse to a bloody pulp?

    Leave a comment:


  • Burton Borrok
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Virginia,
    I respect you, and I respect your views. I don’t agree that any person should be denied their rights for any reason other then the preserving of the rights of others – not their feelings, but their rights.

    I guess we’ll just have to disagree on this one. I look forward in great anticipation of ‘crossing swards’ with you on other issues as they arise. A good healthy discussion really makes us feel alive, and I do enjoy it a great deal.
    Burt

    Leave a comment:


  • Virginia
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Burt absolutely not. I am saying that Life is a Risk. You take those risk with an intelligent informed decision. Think of the repercussions on others. Make an informed decison.

    In one respect I feel he should not be denied to compete. In the other I do.

    I do not feel putting a life at risk to compete is worth it. It is not a mere jaunt in the pool. It could cost him his life if in fact he has HCM. Then again life itself is a risk. So which way to go is the question?

    I value every precious moment of life. I lost a 54 yr. old sister in law and a 48 yr. old best friend. As well as 5 other people in a in the past two year. In fact recently another 53 yr. old friend. So I value life.

    This made me wake up and face my own mortality. In fact that is how I ended up accepting I have HCM after 4 years of denial. As well as getting the defibrillator put in, which could save my life.

    Our government is taking our rights away. Just look at the issues around smoking. It is a society of segregation and discrimination. Taxed to death. Then capitalized on by the government. It is a violation of the first amendment "freedom of expression".

    Yet they do not stop us yet from purchasing it. Why? It does not represent our Country.

    The Olympics does represent a Country. That is why the Italian Government can decide who and who doesn't compete in the Olympics.

    Leave a comment:


  • Burton Borrok
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Virginia – dear Virginia,
    Are you saying that a person should refrain from doing what he truly wants to do – if it might reflect badly on some other people?

    Should a young person refrain from dying his/her hair a strange color because somebody might think all High School kids are stupid?
    Should a young person refrain from wearing the latest teen styles because somebody might think they are a gang member?
    Should they outlaw motorcycles because a segment of the population things they are all driven by Hell’s Angels, and the rider will reflect badly on the whole neighborhood?
    Should teens not be allowed to frequent malls after say six PM because they should all be home doing their homework or studying?
    Should seniors not be allowed out after dinner because they need their rest?

    In my book, the only reason to deny someone his or her rights is if it damages the rights of others to a greater extent then the damage caused by restricting the right of the individual.

    An example of that would be the restricting of free speech to the extent of denying a person’s right to yell fire in a gathering – unless there actually is a fire. This is a group safety issue and the heightened risk of injury and/or death to others outweighs the right of individual free speech, - in this particular instance.

    I have lived a long time already, and have seen death close up and personal in auto accidents, and some people just dropping dead in public places. It happens, and life goes on. I have seen people die in the boxing ring and the wrestling ring, and life goes on. I have been in intensive care a number of times when code blue’s were called and people died in the same room as me. In life there is death. That is no reason to deny a person his rights. While I do not agree with a person intentionally risking his life for no greater good, at no time will I deny a person their right to make their own choice in the matter.

    I have seen a man jump from a plane in a training exercise, panic at the door and get rolled up in his chute. He plummeted to earth and made a rather large hole, but never once did I think skydiving should be outlawed. I’d never do it – but lots of others enjoy it.

    Enough yakking. I thing everybody by this time has made up their own mind in this matter. I really don’t think we will change the Italian law, but those who feel as I do will have to be vigilant if we don’t want that form of suppression to grow any further. We still have the right to choose.
    Burt

    Leave a comment:


  • Virginia
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Glen it is not just swimming it is competive stressful breaststroke swimming I believe. Which is very demanding on the cardiovascular system. Just a swim is one thing competive is another.

    I understand his desire and determination. I respect that. I would not boo him if he was able to compete. I would probably cheer him on. I just would be very sadden if something happened to him in the competion. It is very heavy hearted (no pun intended) for someone to lose their life over a game.

    Jim the reason I understand the determination is because my drs. wanted me in a wheelchair years ago. I refused, due to my determination. As long as I can put one foot in front of the other no matter how long it takes, and how much pain, I will walk on.

    Funny when I went to NEMC, they made me do the treadmil, there were no choices. I literally dragged and crawled myself back to the hotel across the street. It took me almost 45 mins. but I did it.

    I understand the determination and desire to stride on. I also understand the denial.

    Obviously the Italian government gets it and values a persons life more than winning a medal.

    This was a very good debate. As a first timer in one, I really enjoyed it and value everyones opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Glen Beamish
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Jim, I agree, the Jim Gordon scenario should not be compared to the swimmer.

    Leave a comment:


  • mtlieb
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Hi Everybody,

    You all make valid points, and i myself very much appreciate your input. I'm so glad we have a group of adults here who can engage in a debate (even heated at times) and still walk away friends.... at least i think so, right?

    Glen, i think the big difference here is that in the scenario you mentioned, Jeff Gordon would be putting many other lives at risk besides his own. The government, or NASCAR would have every right to prevent him from doing harm to others.

    Virginia, if i were in your shoes i wouldn't think it was the best idea to enter the Olympics either, citing all of the excellent reasons you have given. However, my whole point of course is that the government is not stopping you from competing because of your arthritis. The Italian was not afforded the same choice. His priorities in life should be his own, whether we agree with them or not.

    This is a debate that appears to put some of us on both sides of the fence, but this isn't the case at all. While i believe in pushing one's limits (whatever they are) and getting the most out of life that you can, i don't think that you should put your life at risk unnecessarily while doing it. If Domenico Fioravanti himself came here and posted, asking for our advice on whether he should compete or not, i might just say 'What? Are you out of your mind?' Probably not, but either way... once he made his decision, i would respect his right to do so and stand behind him. We don't even know the specifics of his case or how high his risk of sudden death actually is, do we?

    Hey, that's a great idea! The guy's got HCM... somebody go grab him and bring him on the board. Let the man speak for himself.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Glen Beamish
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Driving a race car and some of the other things mentioned are dangerous, hi risk activity in themself.
    The participants and everyone watching knows that and it's inherent in the sport.
    Swimming on it's own is not particularly dangerous, so the danger is not in the sport as the above are.
    It's the condition of the participant.
    Question: Would NASCAR or any other racing affiliate allow Jeff Gordon or anyone else to drive in a race knowing he has a disease that could potentially cause him sudden death????
    I wouldn't want to be a racer out there against him or a fan sitting on the corner he's driving straight at.

    Leave a comment:


  • Virginia
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    I think it would be foolish to risk your life merely to compete in a GAME. Then again life is a game, as I said before.

    I watched my best fried of twenty eight years run for her life trying to save it while melonoma cancer took it in less than 49 weeks, at age 48.

    If the Olympic swimmer has no concern for his life then go for it. It just makes those of us trying to save our life look foolish.

    Needless to say it shows in one respect having HCM life can go on. In the other it diminishes the risk of HCM and the research into it.

    Ultimately he is not only representing his country he is also representing those of us with HCM. Now the question is do we want that kind of representation?

    Let's say he does have a sudden death event, God Forbid, will that put the spotlight on our choices that we take for granted with intelligent decisions? Gee she/he has HCM they could have a sudden death event, look at that swimmer he just collapsed. Do we want these people driving?

    I have driven twice in the past seven weeks due to being lightheaded and in A-Fib. I will not risk my life or anyone elses for that matter. I guess I am the fool here.

    I agree he should compete because he trained so hard for it. Then I disagree because he should value his own self worth and how precious his life is.

    You have to think of others and not your own self. What will be the repercussions if he does swim and have a sudden death event? The point is, it is not just about him and his own desires, it is about all involved.

    Leave a comment:


  • Burton Borrok
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Originally posted by Reenie
    I watched him run from a dead stop across the yard after his 4 year old niece yesterday. I hate the stop and start running, but don't hound him. He makes his own decisions. Reenie
    Exactly! You don’t like it, are fearful of the consequences, yet you don’t hound him about it, and you let him make his own decisions.

    How would you feel if the state took away his drivers license? How about if they put a monitor around his ankle and if he ran he would be thrown in jail? What if he had to stay indoors all the time? I mean it’s for his own good isn’t it? - - is it really?

    Here you have a trained athlete that probably trained daily for years. He has won enough races to win a place on the Olympic team, and has medals to show for his prowess in the water. He knows his condition and knows what can happen. He is ready to again compete in the Olympics – but strangers say – No, we won’t let you, we know what’s best for you. If you like swimming so much become a coach, but stay out of the pool.

    G-d, Shield me from people who want to protect me out of my life. When you think about it, it is not much different then the bloody inquisition. We will protect your soul for you. We know what’s best for you. It doesn’t matter if we kill you in the process.
    Burt

    Leave a comment:


  • Reenie
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Celtic, thanks for clearing that up. I really did want to know.

    Jim, I'm not angry with Darren. I'm cool, it's his decision what he does with his life. I know all are different. I live with a guy who by all reports ought to be half dead, but he acts as if there is nothing wrong. He still has few symptoms with a septum of 3.8 cm. I watched him run from a dead stop across the yard after his 4 year old niece yesterday. I hate the stop and start running, but don't hound him. He makes his own decisions. I just wish he would slow down sometimes. I don't know if any of this makes sense, but my point of view is from the one who would be left behind if something tragic happened. Would that burst of running afer a squealiing kid have been worth the cost?

    Reenie

    Leave a comment:


  • Toogoofy317
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Jim and Darren,

    I am starting to see where you are coming from. While I strongly disagree with doing it yes it is your right. I mean look at Lance Armstrong he is my hero. I'm sure many told him not to do it but he did and he accomplished it.

    I have been known to really push my limits too. Although, its not in sports in other loves. My local cardiologist told me I'd never make it through EMT school. Well, I did and I had my AICD implanted during that time. It has its risks too. We were talking about those risks the other night Jim. My emotions as of late have been running high.

    The responsible attitude has made me look at it in a different light. I guess I don't see sports as being important enough (in my opinion). Just be as safe as you can. I know if something cardiac happens to me I'm in the best place possible.

    Mary S.

    Mary S.

    Leave a comment:


  • mtlieb
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Originally posted by Virginia
    Let me put it this way hypotheically I would like to enter the Olympics to run, because I love to run. I trained all my life. I have two forms of arthritis that hinder me in walking. Now I might be able to run, if the signal from my brain gets to my leg or I might not... I really want to represent my country and hope I can do this. Gee is that fair to my team? In fact I could fall down because if the signal from my brain does not get to my leg I lose my balance. It is all about my desire to compete and not my country and team, because I want to do this.
    You'd have every right to compete in the olympics for your country, arthritis or not. In fact... you'd be a hero! The very fact that you had overcome such incredible odds, and trained hard for the event, and were able to qualify for the olympics (as the Italian has)... then i should think that your team and your country would be all the more proud for it. Medal or not... you'd be a hero. So why is it that when the swimmer wants to compete and represent his country, he's being called an idiot, a fool, and selfish? All words from your own posts folks... and a bit unfair i might add.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • felixdacat
    replied
    Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

    Remember Darren’s long post. Just wanted to say I agree with every word. Couldn’t have written it better myself.
    Just wanted to add a few points that may have been floating around Darren’s sub conscience.
    • This swimmer’s family has every right and a moral obligation to try to talk him out of competing. So does his friends, his coach, and his teammates. But if he wants to compete anyway, there should not be any individual, committee, group, and especially any government, putting forth any rule, edict, decree, or law to stop him.
    • What if the worst case scenario did happen? He drops dead in the pool during the finals. What is the end result? Grief for those who knew him and the rest of us feel bad because we witnessed it. Is “feel bad” a good enough reason to deprive a person of their liberty?
    Liberty is the most precious concept we have. None of us are getting off of this planet alive. Don’t sacrifice freedom for perceived and temporary security.
    • Let’s say that you have the most popular spectator sport in North America. Many people are earning their living participating and supporting this sport. It is great for the economy because it is a powerful tool for advertising.
    But this sport requires 40 cars to travel almost 200MPH in a very tight space. There is no way to completely separate the possibility of sudden death from NASCAR. I would venture to say that the odds are greater for a NASCAR driver to die (witnessed by millions who will feel bad) then it is for an Olympic swimmer with HCM.
    Most people who know a little about NASCAR would acknowledge that the greatest driver of the modern era was Dale Earnhardt (personally, I’m a Jeff Gordon fan). He died on one of the safest tracks during the sports premier event. What are the odds?
    (BTW, I’m a Jewish boy from Brooklyn who is a Jeff Gordon fan. This means that I am NOT a redneck!).
    Now the Italians have their own motor sports, but they choose to make rules that prevent this athlete from competing?


    BTW Darren, I think that you should stop entering triathlons. But you make up your own mind.

    Leave a comment:

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