OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

[mtlieb]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

I agree with Darren on this one...

If the man wishes to compete, then he is doing so at his own risk and with full knowledge of what might happen. He is not putting another person's life in jeapordy by doing so... only his own. If he wants to do it, and is willing to accept the risks involved... then let the man enter the games. This is his life and his love... we should all be so lucky as to pursue our own dreams accordingly. As friends of his with HCM, we can only advise... we should not dictate the terms of his life.

Jim

[mtlieb]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

In addendum to my previous post...

I should say that although i do not believe that engaging in an activity that knowingly might harm you is exactly the smartest thing to do... i do respect the right of an individual to make his or her own choices.

Take care,

Jim

[Glen Beamish]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

I agree with Darren as well.
If a person on his own knowing full well what may happen decides to go do a run or ride a motorcycle without a helmet then good luck to them and I hope they enjoy it.
But when you get involved with an organization whether it be little league baseball, highschool football, college basketball, running a marathon or an olympic event there are other things to look at.
Do you think for one minute any official, coach, teacher is going to say to that person, we know you have a desease that may cause you sudden death, but we do not want to take your right away to decide on your own to participate, so if you want to go ahead.
The day after that person dropped dead there would law suites flying all over the place even if they signed a waiver.
When your choosing on your own, then fine, but as soon as other people are aware/involved, you cannot expect to put that burden on them nor should they be expected to accept it just because you want to compete.

[Lisa Salberg]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

Glen you are seeing my point. Should someone want to run - play or whatever on theie own Hey thats their business. Once you are in an organized event - league - team... that is a different ball of wax.

If I were the runner - and I had HCM and I wanted to run and I said it is OK if I die - -then I run and die - many people including lawyers, doctors, officials and the community would say "who let this happen" and the courts would be filled for years while my loved ones try to find out why the "system" let me down. That is the way things really happen, I have seen it before and I hope to never see it again.

It is very dramatic to say I want to die doing what I love - it is also placing an amazing burden on society as they watched you die.

It is a hard question for many to deal with - it is also one that has been in the front of many debates and more to come I am sure.

I love my life and the small limitiations I must place on it are worth all of the extra time I will have with my loved ones.

Once again I respectfully agree to disagree on this topic

Be well,
Lisa

[Sarah]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

I read some of the articles about Olympic swimmer Dana Volmer and one of them reported that she _may_ have long QT syndrome, which they discovered after the RFA, but they never explicitly said what the diagnosis was that led to the RFA. She only carries the AED to appease the doctors and her parents (actually her mom carries it, she won't touch it) and doesn't believe that she actually has long QT.

I'm leaning in with Lisa on this one --when you are a part of a team, you have a responsiblity to more than just yourself. It is actually very selfish to say that you should be allowed to do whatever the heck you want regardless of the consequences when you have been told that one of them is your death. At sixteen, our brains have not fully developed higher reasoning and judgement --saw a Learning Channel documentary on this. So I'm reading this girl's words and while I appreciate her determination, I doubt she will see things the same way when she is in her 20s.

Assisted suicide is illegal and if a doctor allows someone with a high risk of dropping dead from a particular activity to participate in that activity, couldn't they be prosecuted if that person died?

My two cents.

[Linda]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

How about the fact that you would be dealing with an electric shock in an area bound have puddles of water. Yes, the AED users are trained to cover for that risk, but it adds a greater risk to the whole situation. Till you cover for all the added risk, you've lost valuable time till that first shock. So, if your choice is to dance on the edge, consider all the variables. Linda

[Burton Borrok]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

Sorry guys and gals,
But I think the governments have gone way beyond their authorities, and are now trying to protect us from ourselves. We all have our own brains and can make our own decisions, much to the chagrin of the politicians. The only time they can morally step in is in the event what you decide to do puts another person or people at risk. I will even grant them the authority of protecting children and deficients who can not protect themselves, but it should end there.

If a person wants to compete in the Olympics, and qualifies to do so, and freely signs a waiver stating that he is aware of the risks and absolves the Olympic committee of all responsibility – they should not have the right to override his informed decision.

I think a person would be stupid not to wear a seatbelt – at least until airbags are proven to be a safer method of protection, and even though some people have been killed because they couldn’t get their seatbelt open in a burning car. On balance a lot more people have been saved by it then lost by it – still what business is it of the government if you choose to wear one or not? Same with motorcycle helmets. Same with lots and lots of other things.
Burt

[Virginia]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

OK let me add my half of my Italian two cents. I think it is great that the Italian government goes to that extreme. I believe everyone is entitled to make their own decision, without putting others at risk.

When it comes to a professional sport and a TEAM player, well I would not want my team to lose because I was in denial of a disease that could take my life while participating in a sport event with my team, while representing my country.

That is being selfish. Sorry if I was representing my Country I would want to be the best that I could be!

The question is, are you 100% to participate and represent your team and country? Answer No. I am at risk of sudden death.

Here I go with my attitude again, GO SIT ON THE SIDELINES AND ENJOY THE EVENT. Imagine just like many many others you are part of the team and not a hinderance to the team.

Geez Lisa this is coming from a person that has been in denial for the past four years.......

[mtlieb]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

I understand the legal ramifications to him competing... i just didn't know we were talking about that. Let's pretend for a moment that everyone in the world is responsible for his or her own actions like big boys and girls, and nobody sues Macdonalds because their coffee is too hot... the man should be allowed to compete and represent his country if that is what he wishes, and he's willing to accept the consequences. He obviously can do it... he already did in 2000.

[Lisa Salberg]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

Off topic for a second - the Mcdonalds thing - I know someone involved in that case (a professional asked to comment on the company practice of MdD's) Here is what you did not know... Md D's did a research AFTER many people were burned but coffee and tea - they set the temp of the coffee maker a few degrees higher them most companies do for the purpose of getting 2-4 more cups of coffee out of a packet of coffee. Hundereds of people had been burned over the years and the company did the math and after th payouts they still made a profit by keeping the heat higher and burning 5-10 people per year (we are talking 2nd degree burns in most cases - loss of skin and scaring).

SO when a little old lady had coffee spilled in her lap (including all "private" areas) due to the poor fitting top and the extremely hot coffee she did file a claim against them - it was only after discovery that it was clear that Mc'D's knew that they were hurting people and as it was cost efficient they chose to not fix it - THAT is why they woman was awarded such a large sum - which was later cut in half.

This story pops up from time to time and the headlines did NOT tell the entire story.

Now back to our regularly scheduled debate on sports!

Lisa

[Virginia]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

Well let me ask this. Do you agree then no matter what your physical limitations are, you can go into the military, and be a soldier, because you want to represent and serve your country?

[mtlieb]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

Apples and oranges Virginia... the military isn't a game. Other people's lives depend on you... not just your own. I think representing your country at the Olympics is a much different proposition. I also think that being active military would put the young man into many grueling and unexpected situations that would put his heart at much greater risk than climbing into a swimming pool... something he has trained for repetitively for years and built up to a certain level of fitness at.

No disrespect to anyone... just my opinion.

Jim

[Reenie]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

I have an opinion on the military. I think it depends on how severe the symptoms are in the individual. My husband was in the Air Force when diagnosed and subsequently got an ICD. He was returned to regular active duty with no limitations, in a remote area of Japan. They did make a provision that he not have to do the annual fitness test and they didn't make him wear the chemical warfare mask and flack vest during war exercises. The flack vest pushed on the ICD and the mask made it hard to breathe.

We were shocked, to say the least. He had no symptoms other than occasional shortness of breath. His job wasn't very physical. He wasn't in a position to be deployed. I don't think he was a danger to anyone in that circumstance. Now, when we returned to the US they put a special code in his file that said he was to stay Stateside and that he wasn't to be deployed. That was reasonable.

I feel that if you are in a position to be deployed, on the flightline loading missiles, or any other strenuous job, then that must be taken into account. The way the military works anymore is that all members need to be physically fit for anything sent at them. I would say that most if not all HCM'ers would have a hard time fitting that bill.

Just my two cents. Please drive through.

Reenie

[mtlieb]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

Hey Reenie!

I kinda knew you were going to pop in on this one. I think you know the point i was trying to get across... about being active military and putting others at risk vs. swimming in a pool. Your husband deserves the right to serve his country, and as you said... there are plenty of positions available these days that do not put his or anyone else's life in jeapordy by having HCM. I'm not quite sure, but was your post then meant to say that you feel the young swimmer deserves the right to serve his country also? You made a good point!

Thanks,

Jim

[Virginia]

Re: OLYMPIC BREASTROKE athlete has HCM

We agree to disagree. I agree with the Italian government of not risking a life to win a game because it is just a game. Obviously they value the life more than winning a game. Even though life itself is a game.

It is not a mere jaunt in the swimming pool but a very competive one. Which is overworking the heart. Which in HCM puts us at risk of sudden death. (see Lisa story of the 12 year old)

I do believe we should make our own decisions if we are old enough. Again it goes back to being a team player. It is not just risking a life to compete and represent a country. It is about winning.

With HCM will he be there to get the medal? What impact will it have on the team if something should happen? Will the team be disqualified and so on.

My brother was discharged from the Navy (honorable) after returning from Viet Nam because he had a Heart Murmur. Yes the same brother that had a sudden death event in 1989.

Yes today there are many other positions available today and yes I believe a person can serve in the Military with HCM, but not as a Grunt. That is the part of the military I meant.

Fortunately since the late 1960's our advancement in technology has broaden the horizon in the military to open doors to allow people with certain disabilities to serve their country.