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coffinam
coffinam
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  • weightlifting and icds

    I have heard vaguely that certain weightlifting can damage the leads to an ICD. Does anyone have more information on this? What kinds of weightlifting, how heavy, what range of motion? Are push-ups, pull-ups ok? curls with 5 pounds? Lifting over the head (probably not)? Thanks

  • #2
    Re: weightlifting and icds

    I'm not sure what weights would cause your leads to rip out but it is typically a contraindication to lift heavy weights with hcm due to increased arrythmia.

    I've done push-ups and no problems but never chin ups. I do lift light weights with high reps.

    Hope this helps!

    Mary S.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: weightlifting and icds

      I also lift 5 lb. weights with high reps and have an ICD. I am also a few months out of open heart surgery, and started lifting 3 lb. weights working up to 5 lb. 2 mos. after my myectomy.
      Daughter of Father with HCM
      Diagnosed with HCM 1999.
      Full term pregnancy - Son born 11/01
      ICD implanted 2/03; generator replaced 2/2005 and 2/2012
      Myectomy 8/11/06 - Joe Dearani - Mayo Clinic.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: weightlifting and icds

        I lift weight daily w/my ICD. I went over this in great detail w/the docs up at Mayo. I did not have any restrictions put on me w/my lifting. Now, with that said, maybe there is a reason one might get a green light and one may not. So I would just check w/your doctor.

        They did talk at length about other restrictions such as Arc Welding, Industrial magnets, etc...

        I can tell you at this point I have done most of the exercises out there w/this thing and not a problem. That includes running a couple miles a day.

        My 2 cents...

        Dave

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        • #5
          Re: weightlifting and icds

          For further discussion and more opinions, see the thread "using weights" a few threads down the page.
          Preston

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          • #6
            Re: weightlifting and icds

            coffinam,

            The only thing that I can think of is incline bench press.
            You should drop the bar down to just above your chest, but a lot of people will "bounce" it of their chest.
            Well the top of your ICD is right where the bar would "bounce" so that might be what people are talking about.

            Doing the exercise correctly should not harm the ICD.

            Hope this helps,
            Fred

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: weightlifting and icds

              It is not the ICD that could be the problem it is the leads. You should speak to YOUR EP and discuss what is best for YOU.

              Generally speaking wieightlifting in HCM is not recommended - but that is a general rule not a definitive one. Light weights are one thing - power lifting that is a horse of a different color.

              Lisa
              Knowledge is power ... Stay informed!
              YOU can make a difference - all you have to do is try!

              Dx age 12 current age 46 and counting!
              lost: 5 family members to HCM (SCD, Stroke, CHF)
              Others diagnosed living with HCM (or gene +) include - daughter, niece, nephew, cousin, sister and many many friends!
              Therapy - ICD (implanted 97, 01, 04 and 11, medication
              Currently not obstructed
              Complications - unnecessary pacemaker and stroke (unrelated to each other)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: weightlifting and icds

                these threads always puzzle me. I have a relatively "mild" case of HCM...no myectomies, ablations, icds, pacers or anything...only one small pill...no outrageous symptoms...yet when it was discovered, the doc said:

                NO running
                NO lifting weights.

                every doc I have seen has concurred with this advice.

                I also kinda thought the dx explained why I *suck* so bad at running...always have...always found it painful. never was able to find a "pace" l could maintain for any distance, etc, etc etc. (I only ever tried to do it because it was required as part of some other activity.).

                So how can any of you (and remember, it seems to me that most of you are worse off than me, medically speaking!)
                a: stand it
                b: get your doc to allow it?

                (Happy New Year, everyone! )
                dx'd HCM @age24, (1989) |Gene + |no family history

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: weightlifting and icds

                  I'll give you three names of docs (one a surgeon) that have allowed me to weight lift (2 from Mayo, and one from a Chicago based heart clinic).

                  Bottom line there is conflicting data on this and it most likely depends on your individual situation.

                  But PM me if you want the names of the docs. In my opinion they are leaders in the field.

                  For the record I am now running 3 miles a day followed by 1/2 hour of lifting (mostly machines though for safety). Haven't felt better.

                  Oh, I should also note that I never liked running. I started on the meds and gradually the condition got to the point where it affected me on a daily basis. Keep in mind, although your condition doesn't get worse, the body around it does (because of age).

                  Got a Myectomy up at Mayo 9 weeks ago. Plan on running a 10K this summer. Long term goal is a 1/2 marathon. Longest I ever ran prior to this surgery was the mile in high school (cause I had to). I also hated running, now I know why.

                  Dave
                  Last edited by cimdxb2; 01-02-2007, 07:04 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: weightlifting and icds

                    Dave although I am the first to say great have goals and go for it , I am reminded of the facts and ere on the side of caution therefor.

                    One big fact is that HCM is a cellular based disease; the cells are destined to keep changing and since it is not known how much or what activities can influence these changes , it is necessary to be advised and forwarned. These cellular changes eventually result in structural changes to the heart. Again not predictable how much of what exercise and what it could lead to. Myectomy's treat symptoms they do not reverse cellular based genetic diseases. Respect for the Hypertrophic heart is a must.

                    I am 3 years out of myectomy and I will admit I felt this was my year to shine and the year I tried to take back my old life; before HCM. In ernst, I tried to do just that this past summer.

                    Well if you read the whole board you will find there is enough change that has occured to my heart that has put me a giant step backwards. AND , I know I am not alone experiencing similar.

                    Can we say that it was my activities that did this? Who knows. Is there a safe parameter or guideline, map for us HCMers to follow post myectomy?....No there is not.

                    We have to use our heads and be mindful of a disease that is not going away as much as any one of us wants a CURE. Exercise is very important and essential but pumping it up could do far more harm over the course of time then anyone of us has bargained for.

                    My advise and 2 cents is to be cautious and allow the heart muscle to fully heal before putting it under too much stress. Our hearts are not like coronary vascular diseased patients . The triggers and catalyst for our hearts and us is likely very different.

                    That said I advise individuals to speak very candidly with their HCM Specialists and follow their guidelines as they know each of our hearts individualy for our very unique differences.

                    Pam
                    Dx @ 47 with HOCM & HF:11/00
                    Guidant ICD:Mar.01, Recalled/replaced:6/05 w/ Medtronic device
                    Lead failure,replaced 12/06.
                    SF lead recall:07,extracted leads and new device 2012
                    [email protected] Tufts, Boston:10/5/03; age 50. ( [email protected] 240 mmHg ++)
                    Paroxysmal A-Fib: 06-07,2010 controlled w/sotalol dosing
                    Genetic mutation 4/09, mother(d), brother, son, gene+
                    Mother of 3, grandma of 3:Tim,27,Sarah,33w/6 y/o old Sophia, 5 y/o Jack, Laura 34, w/ 5 y/o old Benjamin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: weightlifting and icds

                      I have several simple questions....

                      What serious long term studies have been done to draw any correlation between exercise and cell changes in the heart (via HCM)? If there was such a study, what was the sample set? Has there been any new studies since then? If there has been no studies, why would we choose exercise to stop first? Because some athletes have dropped via extreme exercise?

                      Is it possible that intense (not extreme) exercise can help HCM? Even weight lifting? If not, is there proof of this? Or is it all theoretical assumptions at this point?

                      Is it possible that by exercising you prolonged the step back that you are feeling now?

                      People with "healthy" hearts are strongly encouraged to exercise daily. What is it about this exercise that helps them? The long term effects of exercise (yes even intense) has been proven. I think our group should be able to yield the same.

                      What I have learned about this disease is the extreme subjectivity associated with it. I have also learned that there are very different opinions amongst the "experts" in this area.

                      When I was up at Mayo, they talked about the guidelines changing some. They are putting an emphasis on the psychological perspective HCM gives you. In other words, if you limit someone, you automatically put them behind the eight ball. To limit, with only assumptions has its downfall too. I spent many hours talking to numerous doctors up there. I left with no restrictions. Now I will say I might have had more restrictions had they not put the ICD in me.

                      With all this said, I appreciate the advice and will heed the warnings. Personally I hope to help disprove some of the assumptions that are out there and try to expand what an HCM'r can do in life. I am documenting everything I am doing and meeting with my cardiologist every 3 months. Also I am supposed to go back up to Mayo in 3 months and report on how I am doing. To me this is data. Hopefully positive data. The easiest and safest thing a doctor can do is tell you not to exercise. All risk/liability mitigated.

                      Sorry for the long winded post, but I am trying as hard as I can to not let this condition beat me or my kids (or their kids). We need to find out more and if someone doesn't push the limits, we won't find out. So call me a Guinea pig I guess

                      By the way, I love these discussions...I think it brings out facts and ideas and makes us all more aware of HCM. The whole purpose of these boards in my opinion.

                      Dave

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: weightlifting and icds

                        Hi Dave,
                        On the one hand you remind me of the man who fell off the top of the Empire State Building and was heard to exclaim as he passed the second floor, “OK so far.”

                        On the other hand you are right in many respects, but let me at least give you my views. HCM is a very unique disease and effects different people in different ways. It is not at all like some illnesses that follow a pattern – after so many hours such and such happens – so it is basically impossible to set up the same detailed parameters for each sufferer. Yes, it is important to be in as good a shape as possible and it is just as important not to throw your life away going to extremes. No Pain, No Gain is not for HCM’ers. I guess the best measure is yourself – If there is no pain, that’s fine – but quit and rest if you start to feel anything going awry.
                        Burt

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: weightlifting and icds

                          Dave,

                          I wish I could dig up lots of facts for you, I cannot presently and they may be sketchy. As I see them I will pull them out.

                          I speak mostly from personal experience, and a lot of research and experience learning about this disease, and the most excellent advise from my HCM docs at NEMC ; Dr Marty Maron in particular. He and I often, at my visits and other times discuss what articles I have come upon and the research being done. I have always been an investigational person and that is how I was able to diagnose myself and then seek out some experts to confirm MY diagnosis.

                          As I turn each corner and new things develope , I go to the experts and any and all articles worldwide that I can find to quantify , support and even to dispel any theory I might read about.

                          One must really understand the disease process and the differences between normal heart, coronary vascular heart disease and diseases of the heart that are genetic based as with HCM. It would be impossible to tutor someone through this. I am by far NOT an expert , simply a nurse, a patient with HCM, who is able to understand a lot and sees the overal and bigger picture very well. Always was one of my strong suits when I was clinically active.

                          I just know that I have been cautioned to adhere to restrictions and respect my HCM heart. Of course I do my own experiments with this. One experiment is how I am effected by pushing myself VS not . There are for some of us negative outcomes with PUSHING IT.

                          You see the head / brain is a funny thing. I am an optimist who always sees a positive when presented with a negative; another one of my strong suits. So I am quick to disbelieve that I can not do something my brain says I can do. There is this dissociation sort of thing in which the brain says do it , the body feels strong and says, yes you can and often time this masks what one feels heart wise. It is not until all activity is stopped and the heart is recovering when symptoms will present. The damage however has sometimes already occured. When you read you find that this is common with some HCM individuals ; the recovery phase is often when an HCM person will get the chest pain , not during the activity. Cumulatively speaking , the damage can possibly be building up over time.

                          Recently as I was hospitalized, I watched the monitor as I spoke. There was no heart beat while I was speaking( I was at a very low rate of 20- 30 BPM ), I realized then that my brain was still functioning well and that I could intellectually see what would happen were the next beat not to come along.

                          So the brain governs us and we are not always able unless monitored to see what is to happen next. Were I jogging at the time or doing something very physical, more then likely I would have lost consciousness as this was happening to me at home when I walked from room to room prior to going to the hospital. I almost crawled into bed VS going to the hospital that night as my brain was telling me this is just the same old HCM stuff and I do not have time for it. I have to say honestly that some other force pushed me to pay attention that night and ask my family to drive me in.. I would not even allow an ambulance .. Too much fuss I said.

                          Since this I have talked with some individuals who agreed ,that most patients are chirping away even while they are flat lining; until the brain gets the next message.. Cardiac death has occured!

                          So my point here is we need to pay attention , listen to our experts, follow some guidelines that others may have successfully followed, read and learn all we can, encourage more research; safely performed, be respectful of HCM and understand it well, and learn how we are personally effected by HCM.

                          It only takes one time for everything to change not just in our lives but,in the lives of our loved ones as well. Please be safe , keep your body in motion, just be safe!

                          Pam
                          Dx @ 47 with HOCM & HF:11/00
                          Guidant ICD:Mar.01, Recalled/replaced:6/05 w/ Medtronic device
                          Lead failure,replaced 12/06.
                          SF lead recall:07,extracted leads and new device 2012
                          [email protected] Tufts, Boston:10/5/03; age 50. ( [email protected] 240 mmHg ++)
                          Paroxysmal A-Fib: 06-07,2010 controlled w/sotalol dosing
                          Genetic mutation 4/09, mother(d), brother, son, gene+
                          Mother of 3, grandma of 3:Tim,27,Sarah,33w/6 y/o old Sophia, 5 y/o Jack, Laura 34, w/ 5 y/o old Benjamin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: weightlifting and icds

                            Great discussion!

                            I ran a marathon 3 years ago. Never had a major problem during the training or the race itself - I hurt, but nothing heart related that I was aware of.

                            Was diagnosed 13 months ago w/ an EKG and inverted T-Waves. Had some stents, went to CCF and was told by the expert I have apical HCM.

                            His direction: don't get my heart rate over 120 bpm. It doesn't allow me to do much exercise wise, but my local cardio has told me repeatedly "how lucky I was" in surviving the marathon. Huh, lucky I survived? That got my attention. CCF Thesis: the heart is a muscle; the more you work the muscle the thicker it gets - not what we want with an HCM heart, right?

                            I would be very careful with long distance running. Of course, talk with your doctor. Trust me, I'm not very pleased about not being able to return to my high activity lifestyle - but I am pleased to continue living.

                            Your choice - but in my situation, living conservatively is living - which fulfills a responsibility I have to my family.

                            For what it's worth - Andy P

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: weightlifting and icds

                              The thing to remember is (and I don't think you need a study to conclude this) is that our problem is dynamic with exertion, while other conditions are not. (i.e. their heart output doesn't change w/ exercise). I can make mine change audibly just by making a fist. how much does it change when you really stress it? who cares about "long term cellular damage"? I'm concerned more with short-term output. (i.e. "passing out"/"dropping dead").
                              dx'd HCM @age24, (1989) |Gene + |no family history

                              Comment

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