Using weights

[Lisa Salberg]

Re: Using weights

Clay,
I have to add something. Having your heart wall measurements go down is not always a good thing, it may be a sign of your heart reshaping and not in a positive way. Some people with HCM actually progress to a form we call burnt out HCM - I am not suggesting that is your case I am writing this primarily for other readers - So thinning of the walls is not a marker of improvement in HCM and may actually be a poor sign.

Lisa

[nzelich]

Re: Using weights

I find it interesting that “burst” activities in ATHLETICS are generally frowned upon here, but when it comes to having sex or women having children it is then more tolerated.

[BlueDevil]

Re: Using weights

I find it interesting that “burst” activities in ATHLETICS are generally frowned upon here, but when it comes to having sex or women having children it is then more tolerated.

Granted I'm not a physiologist, but when it comes to sex I don't think you can really compare it to lifting weights. Yes, it increases the heart rate, but I don't think it has the same "burst" as weightlifting. In weightlifting, you're sustaining stress on the heart whereas in sexual activity, you're not. Some people do have some difficulty with sexual activity; we talked about this on here not long ago. Also, there are ways to get around doing the activities that cause the most exertion. Not so with weightlifting.

As far as childbirth, I would think that a woman with HCM would likely have a C-section. Ladies?

[caroline]

Re: Using weights

It is interesting---I have been lifting weights for a long time, and in reference to what I am actually capable of, I am using light weights, with many reps. Since I have been steadily working for decades, even though I have not pushed myself, I have built up to a fairly substantial workout----

Over and over again, guys in the gym have tried to get me to push myself more, which I never did------At the other end of the spectrum, Doctors never ask anything about how I worked my way up to the level of weights I am now at--they just blindly condemn it, based on no facts or inquiry whatsoever.

When the experts have no interest in asking about the facts, it is impossible for me to take their opinion seriously---

[Burton Borrok]

Re: Using weights

Caroline,
Using light weights over many rep’s, in my opinion, does not fall under the classification of Burst activity – unless of course you are trying to see how many reps you can do in a fixed length of time. A steady, moderate pace with weights that do not overtax your body is what I would call maximizing your fitness, not endangering it.

It’s the short bursts of extreme stress with too much weight for a person’s own good that winds up killing – or at least endangering the life of the participant. I guess it’s the same with everything – moderation is good, extremism is bad – and you also have to take into account the condition of the body at that point in time. Building it up – if there is enough to start with – takes time. At least that’s my view.
Burt

By the way, I too have no time for doctors that are not interested in conversation but are there soley to make pronouncements. Why not find a doc that IS interested in your condition? You might be fine to exercise as you report - but then again you might not be. Get a cardio who you can discuss this with - please. On the one hand it would be silly to give up something you obviously enjoy just because of the 'form', and on the other hand it would be foolish to die over it. Please get the facts in your particular case, and do the right thing. We'd sure hate to lose you.
BAB

[THW]

Re: Using weights

Just to respond to Tim's (BlueDevil's) question......, and I'd be interested to hear from the other HCM mommies here also. When I gave birth 5 years ago, my HCM was not as severe as it is today, but I did NOT have a C-Section, both my high-risk OBs and my cardiologists were adament and insisted that the C-Section posed a greater risk to me that "pushing." I thought this very strange and sought second opinions at the time, from both another cardiologist and another high-risk OB. They concurred. Seemed weird at the time, but my delivery went well. They were able to do a number of things to help with the labor so that I was not really exerting myself. i.e. 1) They induced me 2 weeks ahead of my due date, which helped the baby to not become overly large. 2) They insisted on an epidural whether I wanted one or not; 3) They watched my blood pressure VERY VERY carefully. 4) They made certain that I "labored down" very far (almost too far) before allowing me to push at all. 5) They used a vacuum. 6) THEY manually pushed on my abdomen. 7) They had a team of experts in the room that rivaled the number of my myectomy team. They were taking no unnecesary chances. After all was said and done, and even now, I look at how great they were, how careful they were, and am awestruck. So, to answer your question, I don't think I had as much of a work out giving birth as I did when I was lifting weights. However, the wear and tear on my heart from the 9 month pregnancy -- well, that's another story and could be a whole other thread But, of course, my darling 5 year old, well, he is worth all of it.
Theresa

[nzelich]

Re: Using weights

I'm not sure that I ever compared having sex to lifting weights. I did, however, suggest that it was a burst activity, which again, is not as taboo here as is athletics.

[caroline]

Re: Using weights

Well Burton,

Thank you for your concern, but I know that you and I both have many health issues.

I am less concerned with length of life than with quality, and stopping or even lessening my exercise would have massive negative impact on my diabetes, my spina bifida bone defects, my nerve pain, my urinary and GI problems. Not to mention my spirits and my zest for continuing to live at all.

I'd like to find a cardiologist who simply respects the multiple battles I have fought for 60 years and realizes that my own discoveries about how to handle it are probably the most relevant factors to my case. If they began with this assumption, I'd be more willing to listen to them.

But, in the USA today, I am unlikely to find any specialists that would take this kind of attitude toward me. The legal system pushes Doctors towards giving advice that is the least likely to expose them to a lawsuit, regardless of the stated decisions of the patient.

[Burton Borrok]

Re: Using weights

Well my friend, you just pushed another one of my buttons. I think at least half the cost of medicine today has to do with doctors ordering CYA tests and procedures to avoid lawsuits, and no wonder with the cost of doctor’s liability insurance.

Recently OB/GYNs in town would not treat a pregnant woman unless she was an old client, and more then a fixed number of deliveries per year would cause their insurance to skyrocket. Woman were forced to go out of state to deliver their children. Sure, some tests are absolutely proper, but still, I think the major thing wrong with medicine today is the ambulance chasing lawyers and the high profit grabbing insurance companies. Of course the sue everybody for everything people and the ‘make him a millionaire’ judgments handed down are at the root of the problem

I just had my fifth cardiac angioplasty, but when I had my fourth back in 2003 I wound up on the table for six hours over two days. The doctor damaged the artery when placing the stent and had to put in a second one to cover the damage. I came out of the cath lab with pneumonia, unable to speak, and my kidneys had shut down. The doctor ‘forgot’ to tell me, or give me a prescription for Plavix, so three days later I had a stroke. I could have nailed his hide to the wall, but I figured that I picked him with eyes wide open and he did the best he could. Suing him would just be money grubbing.

Now in regard to your weight lifting – “Here’s a good rule of thumb, Too smart is dumb.” You more then anybody else know when you are under strain, and you know if it is a short burst effort or a long smooth repetition effort. As long as your test results indicate that activity is allowable and you avoid burst efforts, well my friend, you’re home free. I’m sure you also know when to quit and rest.

I hear you loud and clear when you say quality is more important that quantity – but why not shoot for both? Be the best you can be for as long as you can be. When I think of it I’ve given up a great deal little by little over the years, but I still am having one hellofa good time. I sure wouldn’t want to give it up - not for a long time yet.
Burt

[cimdxb2]

Re: Using weights

Well pretty new to these boards, but will chime in as well. First off, after reading many threads to "educate" myself.....Lisa, hats off to you. I never have met you, but you are obviously dedicated to your cause. Your passion shows w/every post.

A little history:

Passed out w/HCM after "running bases" in a pickup softball game (6 years ago). 2nd time passed out during a stress test (couple weeks ago). Both due to obstruction.

In MY case, it appears that HCM is haunting me more on the "quick" cardio side than the weights side.

I have been working very closely with a doctor in the Chicago area that in my opinion is one of the best HCM doctors out there (in Chicago). Since cardio spooked me for a while after my first episode, he cleared me to do walking and very light weights. After working out med options (Toprol XL 100/mg daily), he cleared me for a little heavier workout w/the weights.

Over the years working out, any dizzy spells have been on the treadmill, not the weight room. Even then, I work out mainly on the machines though. I try to shy away from the free weights due to the risk. If I am doing anything w/the free weights I make sure I have a spotter on me like glue. In either case, I am probably lifting 75% of my max at best. I stress more taking a dump sometimes than I do lifting (sorry for the bluntness there folks).

In my opinion, the best indicator any of us can have is our own body. I am though a believer in trying to keep as active as possible. Many of these studies that doctors do are one dimensional. They will look at the negative effects of doing a particular activity. Conversely, they don't always abstract that analysis with the positive effects of exercise. In other words, what are the long term effects of not working out (cario or weights)?

Now with all that said, everyone is different. All of us seem to have some form of HCM. But wow, there are so many differences with all the conditions. That is where you have to trust the guidance from your doctor as well as countering that knowledge with your own understanding of this disease.

Ok, enough rambling.......by the way, I do think sex CAN be way more of a "burst" exercise than the gym. Again, just my opinion

My 2 cents....

Dave

[craqbin]

Re: Using weights

I have HCM and have always been living on the wild side. They diagnosed me with HCM when I was in 5th grade and I didn't play in gym from there on. I dabbled in sports for a little while playing softball and didn't have any problems. Then I played 3 years of Hockey and on the last year I had a heart attack. I now have an AICD. I have been shocked 8 times so I am getting used to it. I started lifting weights recently living on the wild side once again. I am lifting 35lbs dumbells 2 sets of 20. I get dizzy at the end and tired but its worth it to me. It is starting to get easier and I noticed that I get less dizzy every time I do it. I guess you just have to take chances, and live with whatever consequences you have. I wouldn't take back anything I did in the past. And I'm not afraid of the future either. I hope to be up to 50 lbs dumbells very soon heheheheh.

Its up to you, do what you want, but live with the consequences and be aware of the risks.

I am 27 years old so that might make some difference. :/

[Burton Borrok]

Re: Using weights

Hi Craqbin,
I read your post and I was a little surprised. You say you do what you want and live with the consequences, but that’s not really the choice. You just might do what you want and die with the consequences.

You say you were shocked eight times since getting your AICD and you get dizzy by the end of your repetitions. Doesn’t that mean anything to you? Don’t you think your pushing the envelope a bit too far already? – And you want to increase the weights? What do you want on your tombstone – Here lies the remains of good old Craqbin. First he checked in the gym, and then he checked out.

Why not work out with lighter weights and more repetitions, and stop before you start to get dizzy. Of course you are free to do what you want, but I’d much rather hear that you were living with lighter weights then dieing with heavier ones. Take care my friend.
Burt

[adpsmp]

Re: Using weights

Craqbin - please tell me that you are single and have no kids, don't have parents alive, and have no brothers/sisters with children, and don't have anyone close to you. If you are all alone in the world and want the high risk, good luck. If you have anyone close to you - emotionally or financially, please reconsider.

I ran a marathon 2 years ago and have since been diagnosed with HCM - yes, I miss the activity. But being married with children requires a certain amount of restraint - it is my responsibility to live for them, and me. To do otherwise would be irresponsible. I won't do that to them, no matter how much I want to play racquetball.

You may not care - but others in your life just might. Remember, the HCM might not kill you, but it just might cripple you - wouldn't that suck?!

Just a thought - Andy P

[craqbin]

Re: Using weights

Craqbin - please tell me that you are single and have no kids, don't have parents alive, and have no brothers/sisters with children, and don't have anyone close to you. If you are all alone in the world and want the high risk, good luck. If you have anyone close to you - emotionally or financially, please reconsider.

I ran a marathon 2 years ago and have since been diagnosed with HCM - yes, I miss the activity. But being married with children requires a certain amount of restraint - it is my responsibility to live for them, and me. To do otherwise would be irresponsible. I won't do that to them, no matter how much I want to play racquetball.

You may not care - but others in your life just might. Remember, the HCM might not kill you, but it just might cripple you - wouldn't that suck?!

Just a thought - Andy P

I am married 1 son who is 2. You can put on my tombstone give me liberty or give me death.

[Linda]

Re: Using weights

Craqbin, Welcome to the HCMA - a group of people who want to see all their friends and members live life to the fullest in a way that is best for them. From reading your posts, I see you've lived with HCM the greatest part of your life. It doesn't seem to have held you back from much. You seem the type ready to accept a challenge.

For your next challenge, will you call the HCMA office (973-983-7429)? Call with the intention of learning as much as you can about the latest and most up-to-date research, info, and recommendations on HCM. Every person's situation is so unique, but certain standards are pretty standard. Because you have a wife and child, please do this for them and learn how you can best continue to have a full and satisfying life with them. Only you and your doctor can determine the best guess on what activity level is safe for you, but I'd like to know that you had all the necessary information with which to make sound decisions.

Please read thru the rest of the site. I think with your life experiences to this point, you probably have a lot of insight and experience to share with this group, but please don't underestimate the seriousness of responsibility of self actions and decisions.

Please keep us up to date with how you and your family are doing. Has your little one been screened for HCM? Best wishes - Linda