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HCM, Anxiety and Panic.... Is there a correlation?

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Darren1 My real name is Darren, I have HCM and am a VERY active person that loves to exercise. Find out more about Darren1
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  • Dahilla
    replied
    Could these be the side effects of some pills you are taking? I had it. My doctor changed the treatment and it helped me.

    Leave a comment:


  • JillC
    replied
    Hi, I am so sorry about your injuries. I have never heard of head trauma " triggering" HCM. It may just be an unfortunate coincidence. If you are being seen at Tufts for your HCM you have some of the best resources in the country. They should also be able to verify for workmans comp that your HCM is not causing your neurological symptoms.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pbeanbag
    replied
    HI EVERYONE, I havewritten toTufts but without my medical records ,they cannot offer meany answwers. However,reading these posts , I believe some of you may be able to help me prove my theory which all the cardiologists i deal with seem to blow off. Here goes....I am a 56 year old construction worker, i have always lived a very energetic lifestyle. I can out work most youngmen in my field. In Dec of 2012, i had my head crushed under a piece of equipment. 2 weeks later I started having "episodes" or "events" as some like to call them.Everytime these would occur, my head would plug up painfully, I could not hear much over the buzzing in my head,the pain went from one point of contact to the other (of the accident) as years went by and my neurologist was geting nowhere, i asked for a cardiologist because i could feel the strain my heart was taking. they found I had HCM and naturally blamed all the other stuff on that. This also sent my worker's comp claim into the garbage can. Has anyone found any corilation between head trauma and hcm materializing when otherwise dormant, please respond . monday i go for a Septal Myectomy which should help ( but if the HCM was triggered by head trauma how can i be sure it wont continue to thicken my heart muscles? mike [email protected] gmail.com

    Leave a comment:


  • Ed Evans
    replied
    I never had anxiety, or panic attacks prior to being diagnosed....The reason I think they are panic attacks, is because I am fine before trying to leave the house, but as soon as I get into a car, or try to walk anywhere, I get the huge spike in my heart rate, get dizzy and think I'm gonna die...Even though, it's mainly in my head which triggers it, I can't control it...As soon as I am back in the house, the fear and panic go away, and it takes about 10 mins for me to calm back down...
    Yes, I really need to get back to my cardiologist, but not being able to leave the house, make it near impossible...
    It's a vicious never ending circle, thinking that my panic attack, will turn into a heart attack, because of the HCM...My resting heart is usually 63-65...In panic mode it goes to about 125 (which feels like 200)...I dont know the "danger zone" with heart rate and HCM...
    I have a regular "doctor" that comes to see me every 6 months or so and says that I'm fine except for the HCM. (lungs, kidneys, thyroid,liver)..Should I ask him about a Beta blocker??..Is beta blocker the one, that can cause a stroke, if you stop taking them?
    Thanks again for your help!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • gfox42
    replied
    Hi Ed,
    Just to add to Jill's comments: no, blood thinners won't help here. It's not impossible that beta blockers would help (since they're reducing the effect of adrenaline), and they're typically the first drug used for HCM, but really, Jill's advice is solid: you really need to see a doc, and in particular one of the HCM centers of excellence.

    Gordon

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  • JillC
    replied
    Hello Ed....Please don't ever be embarrassed to talk about something that has so drastically limited your ability to enjoy life. When we are embarrassed, we hold back on seeking the help we need. Your post does not say if you had " panic" attacks before your HCM was diagnosed.....and if you haven't seen a doctor in 6 years are you sure they are " just" panic attacks.
    You really do need to leave the house and get properly diagnosed so you can get properly treated. It is sometimes very difficult to tell if the rapid heart rate caused the anxiety or if the anxiety caused the rapid heart rate.
    A good rule of thumb I have found is to always make sure physical problems are taken care of before assuming there is a psychological problem. If I were you I would get the HCM evaluated and treated at an HCM Center of Excellence. You may need medication for your heart rate or rhythm. From there ask them for recommendations on some one to see concerning anxiety and panic if it is still an issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ed Evans
    replied
    It is embarrassing for me to write this, but I have not left house in over 6 years, because of severe panic attacks and agoraphobia....I was diagnosed with HCM about 7 years ago....I started out fine, thinking this was not a big deal...One day, I was about to go for a drive and had a bad panic attack and of course, my heart rate went through the roof, and I truly thought I was going to die, right then and there...My HCM has got the best of me, and even though I know it's just a "panic attack", it makes my heart rate go crazy, then the palpitations start, etc, etc....So, I can't tell if the panic attack is going to set off a heart attack or not, so I have not put myself in that position in many years....The worse part is, I have a wife and 3 kids and I know they suffer because of my lack of participation.....I also have not been back to the cardiologist in about 6 years....Is there a medication that can help with the panic attacks, without speeding up my heart rate???...All the "anti depressants" I have seen come with "fast heart rate" as a side effect....Will blood thinners help ease the sudden increase of heart rate during a panic attack??
    Thanks for any help!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • JillC
    replied
    Offended? Of course not.... Hope I didn't give you that lmpression! We are all in this together along with our docs and the researchers.....One foot in front of the other....as you say just working to get to as "normal" a state as we can.
    Knowledge is power.

    Leave a comment:


  • mhochkins
    replied
    Thank you Jill for your feedback and contribution. I hope my stubbornness has not offended you as I think you have a kind spirit which is evident in your posts. I appreciate you taking time with my posts.

    I have a lot more research studies saved in PDF format regarding adrenergic effects on HCM. The one I shared is the most concise and in txt format. My privileges at this web site do not allow me to upload the PDF documents. I can share them through PM if you are interested?


    I am doing my best live a "normal" life style. The beta blockers have slowed me way down but I am still active. The episodes of A-Fib are less frequent which good! It could be worse. I am thankful for my new friends at the HCMA and their valuable feedback!

    Leave a comment:


  • JillC
    replied
    Thanks for the article! It clarifies for me what you were trying to get across about the association you are finding with adrenalin and HCM....Your extensive research is appreciated. It's very hard to know exactly what the myocardial abnormalities are in any given case of HCM without resorting to cardiac muscle biopsies. This makes research difficult except in animal models. I had the "fortune" of having muscle removed during myectomy ( I even requested pictures ). So I was able to read the pathology report. Muscle disarray was part of the report but hypertrophic cells and fibrosis were another huge part. So the causes whether genetic or environmental or mixed ..... Seem to be a combination of cellular abnormalities.You spoke about athletic heart... But I had hypertension for many years before I started on meds for it, hypertension can cause hypertrophy but not necessarily disarray. ..... I haveafeeling that there will remain questions for a long time. In the meantime what I understand is that regardless of cause, the standard of treatment remains the same....Sigh.......
    Last edited by JillC; 04-08-2016, 12:48 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mhochkins
    replied
    :>) LOL! I'm with you! And what it is even more frustrating for me is that I do not have the credentials that you have, so I am not taken seriously.

    Thank you!

    Leave a comment:


  • gfox42
    replied
    Interesting. The big question is how to understand the molecular/cellular processes involved in pathogenesis - more insight on that would lead to an understanding of how certain mutations lead to HCM.

    Unfortunately, I can say this, but its quite far from anything I do research on - so I'm definitely saying it from an armchair. Watching reruns, yelling at the screen. That said, this is a tall order.

    Leave a comment:


  • mhochkins
    replied
    Gordon,
    I appreciate your time and patience with me. The explanation helps tremendously! And, it confirms my understanding however I was not aware that %50 is a high number for diseases attributable to genetic causes.
    I do not mean to discredit the genetic causes for HCM in any way, I am just saying that from the research I have been doing, it seems like most of the effort has been directed towards gene study.
    In the past, there were many studies towards adrenergic stress and myocardial disarray which seems to have stopped about 10 years ago. I have attached a brief summary of one of the studies. I have many more concerning myocardial cell damage if you are interested.

    Since the discovery of my HCM I have been fascinated with biology and DNA. The Internet has been a very useful tool for visiting web sites and getting information. Dr. Euan Ashley of Stanford Health Care has some pretty good videos of the molecular structure of myocardium.
    When I discovered that there have been previous studies about norepinephrine and adrenergic stress and how it can cause the changes to the myocardial cells, I felt illuminated as it makes perfect sense in my case. For me it was like a revelation, I now know the "truth". It's like a newly converted Christian who wants to share this knowledge and can not understand why others don't share their enthusiasm. At any rate, I am appreciative of your willingness to share your knowledge with me Gordon. I realize that there is way more that I don't know. I have a lot to learn. Thank you!

    My attachment would not work so I have copied and pasted below. I provide it as information only. If you know about it, please let me know if it has any merit:

    1. Int J Cardiol. 2005 Mar 18;99(2):277-82.

    Myocardial disarray: an architectural disorganization linked with adrenergic
    stress?

    Fineschi V(1), Silver MD, Karch SB, Parolini M, Turillazzi E, Pomara C, Baroldi
    G.

    Author information:
    (1)Department of Medico-Legal Sciences, University of Foggia, Ospedali Riuniti,
    Via L. Pinto, 1, 71100 Foggia, Italy. [email protected]

    BACKGROUND: Myocardial disarray is a structural abnormality found in specific
    zones of the normal heart. In some conditions, such as hypertrophic
    cardiomyopathy (HCM), its occurrence represents a pathological process leading to
    myocardial asynergy. The incidence of "pathological" myocardial disarray in
    humans is still not known. It has been suggested that a link exists between
    adrenergic overactivity and myocardial disarray. The aim of the present study is
    to compare heart findings in conditions with and without chronic sympathetic
    overtone for evidence of possible linkage in humans.

    MATERIALS AND METHODS: A total of 340 hearts were studied. They were divided into
    seven groups: sudden/unexpected coronary death; sudden/unexpected death in silent
    Chagas' disease; brain haemorrhage following berry aneurysm rupture; transplanted
    hearts; congestive heart failure, AIDS and cocaine abuse. Findings in these
    hearts were compared with anatomic changes in 92 control hearts, where the
    decedent had died from head trauma, electrocution, or carbon monoxide
    intoxication. The frequency and presence of myocardial disarray were recorded and
    correlated to heart weight, extent of myocardial fibrosis, and contraction band
    necrosis (CBN).

    RESULTS: Hearts from patients with conditions that increased sympathetic tone
    showed an association of myocardial disarray and contraction band necrosis
    without any relationship to heart weight.

    CONCLUSIONS: Myocardial disarray was observed in cardiac areas where it is not
    found normally. It was associated with adrenergic myocardial stress
    morphologically expressed by a higher number of foci (p<0.01) and myocells
    (p<0.001) with CBN versus findings in normal subjects. The condition deserves
    further study as a possible myocardial asynergic and arrhythmogenic factor
    especially in sudden/unexpected death.

    PMID: 15749187 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Leave a comment:


  • gfox42
    replied
    OK, good, I thought that was what you meant. That might be exactly what happened to you -- I don't know, but it's plausible in general. That doesn't mean that HCM isn't a genetic disease. All genes have their effects only given particular environmental circumstances. If you change the environment (and by environment, I include all the rest of someone's body), then particular genes can have markedly different effects. In other words, a disease having genetic causes doesn't necessarily mean that having a particular gene means that you will always have that disease -- it may depend on the environment as well.

    Why haven't we found the basis for the disease in more people? First, I should say that the fact that half or more of the cases have known genetic causes is remarkable: there aren't many human genetic diseases with numbers that high! Second, there's the obvious point that we haven't found all the contributing genes. But I suspect that there are quite a few cases whose causes involve the interactions of genes with one another, or genes with the environment, or both. In other words, it's not just that mutations haven't been found yet; it's that some of them can only be understood by understanding how they interact with other genes or the environment. That also means that we may never be able to explain every case.

    I'm a biologist. This sort of thing is actually pretty basic to biologists, but we've done a terrible job of educating people about genetics, by convincing them that it's all simple and direct, the way we were all taught (incorrectly, it turns out) eye color works. The fact is that genetic diseases - or any condition resulting at least partly from genetic effects - always occur in a context. We'd say that

    So, might your HCM have been started the way you suggest? I don't know. I know that there's currently no evidence for processes like that causing HCM, but in principle there's no reason they couldn't occur. I'd still be happy, in common conversation, calling HCM a genetic disease.

    But in biology we (I'm a biologist) would use more subtle terms. We'd say, for instance, that HCM has a large "genetic component," because we know that not everyone with certain mutations eventually develops disease. Some mutations may be more certain than others to lead to HCM; I never say that a person has a gene that causes HCM, but rather that the person has a mutation that contributes to HCM. That contribution may be large or small, but there aren't many that always, invariably, cause HCM.

    I'll resist the temptation to go on and on. I hope this helps.

    Gordon

    Leave a comment:


  • mhochkins
    replied
    I suppose that is correct. I may carry a gene mutation, but that does not necessarily mean that the conditions which the gene mutation may create, will manifest itself in my lifetime. Something like the Shingle virus, if you had chicken pox as a child, you carry the Shingle virus but that does not necessarily mean that the virus will present itself in your life time. It may, or it may not...

    I may be mistaken but that is my understanding of the HCM gene mutations as well. Many people live their whole life without ever having symptoms of HCM even though they carry the mutated gene. Is this correct? (It is what I have been led to believe by my cardiologists and also what I have read from research I have done through different cardiology web sites)

    Like I stated previously, everything was going good for me before the trauma. After the trauma I started showing signs of HCM.
    Also like stated previously, I have been an athlete for all of my life (I still play ice hockey and waterski). As I understand it, "Athlete's Heart" is similar to HCM. I suspect that I could have a combination of things going on in me which could have caused the HCM in my case. The trauma from the accident caused a tremendous amount of adrenalin! I was "pumped" for a few weeks. There have been some studies which indicate that adrenalin may also contribute to HCM in mice studies. I realize this is speculation on my part, but it is what makes logical sense to me considering my experience.

    As for the gene mutation? Maybe they will find one for me but I do not have any that are currently known.

    Thank you for sharing your experience JillC.

    I apologize if I come across bull headed but my experience is evidently outside the normal and I get frustrated. I KNOW from my personal life experience and the sequence of events which led up to the effects of HCM. I emphasize that to the doctors but they seem to ignore what I am telling them and refer back to gene mutations... blah blah blah

    Thank you for your patience with me and reading my posts! :>)

    Leave a comment:

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