for those of you with fainting spells

[Abbygirl2]

Do those of you that have fainting spells feel the faint coming on or does it happen spontaneously?
Also what causes them? An irregular heartbeat or something else?

I get presyncope spells, I have never fainted but I feel that I have come as close to fainting as one can(without actually fainting).

Its been 6 months since these spells began and my Dr can't figure out why. My cardiologist doesn't (think) they are heart related.


Thanks
pam

[Laoshur]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Your cardiologist doesn't think they are heart related?!? Weird! Maybe he should do some reading.

In answer to your question about how it feels, since I have been practicing this week , I can speak from experience. The first time I completely fainted, about three years ago, I was feeling funky while working out and laid down on a crunch bench. I heard my heart stop, lost consciousness, and came to a few seconds later. The times that it has happened since then have been mixed, but most of the times I had no warning. Suddenly my legs gave way and I either recovered as quickly as it started, or I went down. I am thankful to say that each time I have fallen into a chair rather than the floor!

I would definitely question the cardiologist as to why he thinks it is not your heart since you have a diagnosed heart problem for which fainting is one of the symptoms! Do you see an HCM specialist? Push for answers.

Rhoda

[swinand]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

I'll second what Rhoda said. Your cardio doesn't think it is heart related???? I was having near syncope episodes, sometimes just walking or sitting. Sometimes I could feel some type of arrythmia sometimes not. One day I passed out, with no warning. I happened to be on my boat. I woke up under water. Now that scared the cr-p out of me. Three months later my cardo put a ICD in my chest. I still get a little faint sometimes but I now have some protection which makes me feel a little better. As Rhoda said, your cardio should do some do some reading. Get it checked out. Good luck, Steve.

[Cynaburst]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

I was getting them too (and sometimes I still do). I wore an event monitor for a month. I was found to have non-sustained v-tach. Now I have an ICD too. I still don't enjoy these episodes, and since I have increased my beta blocker, it happens less frequently, but sometimes the episodes were from obstruction, and sometimes arrythmia.

You need to see a Dr. who knows what they are talking about! Clearly HCM is the cause of your problems. Are you obstructed? That could be it, or it could by arrythmia. I usually can usually tell a second or so before that something isn't right. With the obstruction problem, I have longer to sit down and put my head down. That usually cures it.

[Burton Borrok]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Hi Pam,
I’ve had three or four fainting spells in the past year, and a few - years before that, but thankfully none in the past six months or so.

As I pass out I get what’s called, ‘tunnel vision.’ (Your vision tightens down like your looking at the world through a tunnel.) As a teenager I could generally get to a seat quickly enough to avoid fully passing out, but this last year it has happened so quickly I could do nothing to avoid it. Once it happened in the middle of the night as I was leaving the bathroom. I went straight down in the doorway, and when I came to I had to pull myself forward out of the doorway. I thought I had broken my big toe, but it was only bruised. That’s how quickly it hit.

Now that I think about it, I believe these occurrences are preceded by a headache but I don’t know if that is always true. I just know it doesn’t happen when I am feeling well. Also, when I’m tired I sometimes will doze off for ten to twenty seconds at a time while doing something seated, - and sometimes I’m asleep for hours – like in front of the TV, but then doesn’t everybody? I find most TV shows today fairly hypnotic.

I asked my neurologist about passing out after I had my stroke, and he said it was a blood flow problem. If you get up to quickly, and sometimes for other reasons, the blood will drain out of your head to the point where you pass out. When you go down the blood flow is returned and you wake up. Then, if you get up too quickly, down you go again. I’m sure there are a number of heart conditions which will cause the same reaction.

Does anybody else get tunnel vision on the way to syncope? (Sounds like a song title.)
Burt

[Abbygirl2]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Thanks for the replies, I guess the reason my cardio doesn't think they're heart related is because I feel faint and weak for so long. He said usually cardiac related syncope happens without warning(though not always)
I had a really bad spell today and went downstairs to lay down. I began feeling better after about 5 min or so but continued to feel lightheaded, spacy all evening.
I always go dowstairs when I begin feeling lightheaded and my eyes start seeing things weird(possibly tunnel vision or blurred vision). I always make it to my bed.
I was even out for a walk one day and down the street from my house I began getting all the symptoms. I cut across the church yard and thought for sure people were going to arrive and see I had died in the church yard. Well I made it home and sat down and recovered.

See where I am confused?
I have never had (near)fainting spells(until 5 months ago) and nothing has changed in my condition in 6 yrs. I wore a holter and caught one of the spells but nothing came back abnormal.
These spells happen once or twice DAILY, and I am at my wits end.
I don't get lightheaded from standing up too quickly, and I have been checked for all the other things(diabetes, low iron etc)
Thats why my cardio. doesn't think they are heart related(also I have checked my BP and heartrate during these spells NUMEROUS times and nothing exciting is happening there.(While I am still feeling faint)
Ok, I am running off at the mouth again, as usual its after 3am and I am still awake.
Have a good sleep....
Pam

[Pam Alexson]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Pam , Do you have access to a glucometer? Possibly could be your glucose level is dropping at these times. If you lie down the glucose level often can improve as you then begin to utilize your stored fat for conversion to glucose ( sort of a mild explanation for a scientific process.) With people who have hyperinsulimia, this can go on for years without detection . The docs do a glycohemoglobin level and it comes out normal as the test shows the averaging of your 30 day blood sugars as recorded by your cells. It took me giving a similar story and the hard evidence and an argument to my then cardiologist to get him to send me to an endocrinologist. She did insulin studies; levels, and bingo I had been a diabetic for 14 years or more without detection . She concluded a lot of my past confirmation via a thorough history taking. My 1st child weighed 8lb 6oz, 2nd was 9lb 4oz, and 3rd was 11lb 1&1/2oz. Good thing I stopped at 3!Never gained more then 20 lbs /pregnancy and with the 11 lb'er only gained 16. The endo said the tests they do on pregnant women does not factor in the ones with hyperinsulimia. With glucophage on board those sx's still occur at times but when I forget to eat on time. Sometimes I feel like I have been invetigating my health for a good part of life. The HCM related faints were more exactly like Burt described for me anyway. I hope you get to the bottom of this or should I say the top? Best Wishes . Do your friends and family call you Pammy? It sometimes sounds silly at my age but I like it OK. Pamela was always for when I was in trouble or when I wanted to sound very French; Pamela Jean Benoit. The Irish from my mom did not get in there( Mckearney) and now I am left with a Greek last name . ( shortened from Alexopoulos. ) Oh well names can be very interesting huh? Pam

[Abbygirl2]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Pam,
I was told a few monthsback that I was 'borderline' diabetic so I ran out and bought a home glucose monitor, my numbers are always within range. Could this still be the case if it were hyperinsulimia? My symptoms are very similar to that of low blood sugar, unfortunately food doesn't seem to cause a change in the way I feel. My Dr said she would send me to an endocrinologist, but it never happened. What 'hard evidence' did you have to give your cardio in order to be sent to an endo?

I don't want to automatically dismiss this as HCM related, because thought it is entirely possible, it could be something else as well. Besides these are often long drawn out spells, not quick fainting spells.

Thanks so much for the info though, I will look into this before my Dr app today.

Oh, by the way, nobody calls me Pammy...however in high school I dated a guy whose last name was Hamm...*Pam Hamm*, man did I get teased about that forever!!
Take care
Pam

[Pam Alexson]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Pam, I kept my blood sugars in a log and at what time and when I ate times and what I ate. It seemed that I was taking my blood sugar a lot but that is how I caught it and he acknowledged that if we did not trust these devises then why would the medical community utilize them. This is how we got to the dx. My uncle and brother also have it. The hyperinsulimia is often referred to as the honeymoon faze of a type 2 diabetic before they go on insulin. In the early stages before full loss of insulin production by the pancreas the pancreas will attempt to correct the problem by excreting very large amounts of insulin , in my case 8 times the normal level hence the term ;hyperinsulimia. As this scenario happens throughout the day repeatedly the pancreas over works to normalize the blood sugars. When the doctors were checking they would always seem to catch me as I was rising or falling and still reading within normal. It is the belief that a person caught in this stage of diabetis can often never have to go on insulin if an oral antidiabetic agent is started during this period and diet control etc. The med. will slow the absorption of sugars, simple and complex, from the small intestine and also normalize the insulin levels in the pancreas . Another possibility for these spells is just that HCM people have a difficult time in general with foods esp. carbs and larger portions which seem to vary from individual to individual. The already stressed heart has to share circulation with the stomach when digestion is necessary. When I had a large gradient this was very distressing to me. Those type of spells seem to go on and on. It still exists but to a much lesser extent. I hope some of this info helps you. Good luck at the doctors. Pam

[Burton Borrok]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Howdy,
Guess who’s also a diabetic. I started on four 5 mg Glyburide (Glynase) tablets a day – two each a half hour before breakfast and dinner (lunch seemed OK), and I’m still on them. However, since then Lantis has been added. This is a long lasting insulin which I take once a day before bedtime. I’m currently on 30 units a day, but have been given the OK to increase that if my blood sugar levels indicate the need. Beside that I’m also on seven units of Humalog immediately before lunch and dinner. This is a very fast acting insulin and must be administered within ten minutes prior to eating. Again I’ve got the green light to increase the dosage if needed.

My doctor is a professor of endocrinology at the Nevada School of Medicine and he is as sharp and understanding as they come. When I first became his patient he gave me a write-up of the various symptoms of hyper and hypoglycemia. Here they are. . .

Hyperglycemia
Extreme thirst – frequent urination – dry skin – hunger – blurred vision – drowsiness – and decreased healing.

If your glucometer reading is over 200 for several tests or for two days call your doctor.

Hypoglycemia
Shaking – fast heartbeat – sweating – dizziness – anxious – hunger – impaired vision – weakness / fatigue – headache – irritable.

Drink a half glass of juice or regular soft drink, or a glass of milk, or eat some candies – not chocolate. Within 20 minutes check your reading again. If symptoms don’t stop call your doctor. – Then eat a light snack (1/2 peanut butter or meat sandwich and a half glass of milk.)

Gee Pam, I hope this is of some use to you. Maybe you can pin down the problem.
Burt

[Toogoofy317]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

I have issues on the hypoglycemic side. I must be tough sucker because my levels have dropped into the 30's and I was still functioning but feeling extremely weak. This happened once when I was in the ER when they wouldn't let me eat for six hours. I took my own glucose and it was 30 should have seen the look on the triage person's face. Needless to say I went right in at that point!

I think my glucose levels have something to do with my HCM episodes too. Because most times when I end up in the hospital my levels are low. My theory on this is that when you go into a hypoglycemic episode your body releases large amounts of adrenalilne to compensate. In my case when I get an adrenaline rush my heart hates it. Since, my heart is already working hard during the hypo the adrenaline just makes it worse.

After, one of these hcm/hypo episodes my body is absolutly exhausted it takes a few days to fully recover.

Just my two cents!

Mary S.

[Burton Borrok]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

I must be very susceptible to suggestion because I’ve been staggering around bumping into walls all night, and almost fell a few times. Personally I think it’s another attack of Vertigo. (The only thing missing so far is the room spinning when I lay down, but I think that’s coming.) Just moving my head will make me dizzy, my eyes are blurry, and I have a roaring headache. I’ve had Vertigo a few times before and was told it would probably return a few times, but it’s been over three years and I thought I was through with it. This is most inconvenient – I can’t even remember the name of the drug I took for it. (I tried to research it on the computer, but I just can’t deal with it now. I’ll ask the druggist – it’s an over the counter medication.)

Anyway, my blood sugar level this morning was 163 – a bit high. I’ll be checking it closely for a few days and will probably wind up increasing my insulin doses. The ranges I was given years ago are as follows.

Below 60 – the meter will say “Do You Need a Snack?”
60 to 80 – low.
80 to 120 – ideal
120 to 140 – good
140+ - high

I hope this is of some use to you guys. I’m heading back to bed to watch some TV.
Burt

[Abbygirl2]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Thanks for all the info. For awhile, I did record my BS and it was always within range. But --it is often at the lower end of the range. I can't seem to get the number up for any length of time. Anyway, think I will start recording my BS again, just to see what I can come up with.

On another note....I had my Dr's app. yesterday. (I was SUPPOSED) to see a NEW Dr but imagine my surprise when my regular Dr walked in.
I think she felt bad that she hadn't done anything for me, I don't know how she managed to 'steal' me away from the other Dr, the Canadian health care system baffles me.
Anyway, the closest thing to a diagnosis in six months came finally. She thinks my body MAY be overreacting to low progesterone/high estrogen. Anyone ever heard of this. (Particularily the women )
I really don't care what it is at this point, I just want to feel better. She put my on Medroxy.

The cardiologist that I am seeing for a 2nd opinion wanted me to wear a 48hr Holter, so I am hooked up once again.
Last night I had some weird kind of spell, It felt like a surge of (adrenaline), and felt like it was coming from my heart-or causing my heart to act up. My heart started going crazy, and I felt horrible, so I woke DH and told him to take me to the ER. He told me to calm down and go back to bed.
I settled down and after much tossing and turning went back to sleep.

I hope tonight is a better night, she wouldn't give me anything to help me sleep as she didn't want to start me on two 'new'meds at once, plus she thought the Medroxy might help me sleep.
OK, I am done rambling, the inlaws have been here for two weeks and just stepped out for a few hours. I have some housework to get done.
I am feeling more disorientated today than usual...so I hope this all makes sense.

Pam

[Burton Borrok]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Dear Abbygirl Pam,

I assume DH is either your husband or significant other. How nice of him, when you asked him to take you to the ER to say, “No, go back to bed.” I won’t say what I’m really thinking, but it must be great to have somebody you can really count on like that.

Time to change the subject. I suspect that your blood sugar levels are not the cause of your problems. If the doctor said you were borderline diabetic, your readings should fall on the high side. If your numbers are on the low side, you might be hypoglycemic, except that condition should respond quickly to the intake of food or candy. That’s why I suspect the problem resides elsewhere.

I would ask your doctor for a blood test checking all your various blood chemical levels, to be run when you’re feeling funky – including the Hemoglobin A1c which will give you the average blood sugar level for the previous 90 days. I don’t know how that is handled in Canada. I get a referral to a lab and can go at my convenience – but a little before my next doctor’s appointment. Some tests require a 14 hour fast, so I do those in the mornings.) If I’m in the ER or admitted I ask the attending. When I explain why I want it I usually have no trouble getting the tests – and a bunch more for good measure.

With me, my dizziness eased off by late afternoon, in time to go out to dinner and cards with friends. I don’t know what it was, but I’m glad it’s over. (Might just have been a goodbye salute from the Vertigo problem.)

Take care and please keep us posted.
Burt

[Abbygirl2]

Re: for those of you with fainting spells

Burt, ya I wasn't so convinced it was BS related either. But I of course don't want to rule anything out. DH(My husband) has been through this with me soooo many times, and knows I always settle down, which I did. He is very calm under stressful situations where I overreact. It could have been a panic attack last night.
Also we have been to the ER probably 10 times these past five months over these weird presyncope spells. They always hook me up, watch me for awhile and tell me to go home. I guess he just doesn't see the point anymore. Ugh, how much crap can I put him(and my kids through)?

Anyway, I am going to ask my Dr if I could come in and get some blood work taken during a spell(frankly I don't know if I will be able to) , I usually feel too weak/faint to move. I did have some blood work done once while in the ER...nothing was discovered.
Ah well, It after 3am, should try to get some sleep.
Thanks for listening

Pam