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Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

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MartinKennedy Find out more about MartinKennedy
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  • jujemendoza2002
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Marty, I am happy for you, that your feeling better and I wish you well in the future.

    Leave a comment:


  • Burton Borrok
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Hey Jim,
    Keep that up and you’re turkey just might get lamb-basted. Might even get the stuffing’s knocked out of it.

    Sorry about that Jim. The set-up was just too good. I fought against it mightily, but finally succumbed to the temptation. Actually Rhoda’s analogy is an excellent one, but she’s heading back to China, so maybe she should have used a duck instead of a turkey. In any case there’s no need for any of us to go flying off the handle.

    Reminds me of the farmer that bought a new rooster to service his flock. New Rooster walks up to Old Rooster and says that he’s taking over. Old Rooster begs for just a couple of birds to keep him company in his old age, but New Rooster wants none of it. They finally decide to settle the dispute by having a race around the barn – winner take all. To make the contest a little more fair New Rooster allows Old Rooster a head start. By the time they round the corner of the barn facing the house New Rooster is gaining rapidly on Old Rooster. Just then a shot rings out, and New Rooster falls dead. The farmer puts the rifle down and mutters, “Third dang queer rooster I got this month.”

    The moral of the story of course is that the wisdom of age can easily overcome the vitality of youth. If you’ve got to exercise, don’t forget to exercise your brain first.
    Burt

    Leave a comment:


  • mtlieb
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Rhoda,

    LOL... i love your analogy. So what you are basically saying is that i shouldn't worry so much about my new lower ejection fraction, because my turkey is getting fully basted? Prior to myectomy, my turkey was only getting half-basted. I like that! Woo Hoo!

    Thanks.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Laoshur
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Just to add my two cents on the 80% fraction discussion, since I started it: According to one cardiologist I saw as well as some discussions on the web, high ejection fractions are not only not a sign of an extra good heart, they are a definite negative. To quote from an absolutely great online article http://www.hosppract.com/issues/2001/05/mohid.htm (Go read the whole thing. It has a great analysis of risk stratification for HCM.),

    "Indeed, most HCM patients exhibit hyperdynamic left-ventricular contraction and a supranormal ejection fraction. These appearances are deceptive; ventricular systolic and diastolic volumes are smaller than normal, and the high ejection fraction reflects not only lower wall stresses but also reduced stroke volume."

    The way it was explained to me was that the excess ejection of blood from the heart leaves it starved for blood for the succeeding beat leading to arrhythmias and chest pain due to a lack of blood flow to the heart muscle. I kind of picture it like trying to squeeze against a turkey baster that is only half full. Although most of the turkey juice squirts out (high ef), in fact it is not enough juice to baste the turkey.
    Rhoda

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  • Lisa Salberg
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Did I hear my name???

    EF- well a "normal" EF is between 50-65% by most definitions - Most people with HCM will have EF's over 65% some as high as 85%.

    EF's UNDER 50% are an indication of a weakening of the heart muscle.

    Does this help?

    Lisa

    Leave a comment:


  • Pam Alexson
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Jim ., I am sorry I did not mean to be flip or anything I thought you were posing a hypothetical , my mistake.

    I think we need Lisa to respond here. Lisa , oh Lisa hello. Geeze I feel like I'm back watching Captain Kangaroo and Mr Greenjeans trying to wake up the clock.

    Well in the meantime I read the site info that Burt gave and others like on medscape too. I think it says what I said , but maybe my conveyance is " Lost in Translation."

    It talks about the #'s not being something we need to get too radical about as they fluctuate frequently and it refers to low #'s indicating some concern regarding heart failure. It also talks briefly regarding the diastolic heart failure that those with heart conditions like Hcm may be experiencing . This is where it talks to the lower volume of blood 2ndary to to the stiffness as seen in hcm hearts and the lower capacity for volume because of medication effect, and the impaired filling of the left ventricle. What I was try to note was really 2 factors . #1 being what EF means and that#2 there is a lower volume of blood entering the left ventricle of the Hcm heart on each beat . Yes if the EF is 60% then 60% of the volume of blood is being ejected per beat- this is a normal EF. But it is still 60% at a lower then normal volume capacity. Clear??? This answers to many of the symptoms experienced by HCM people. Less blood, less oxygen, less nutrients, poorer muscle performance and when the heart works real hard the Chf that many experience worsens and many other effects that require more time then I have.

    I hope I have not caused more problems here . Best wishes . Pam

    Leave a comment:


  • mtlieb
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Hi All,

    Burton: That's exactly the page i got my information from before i made my post. I guess we both got googled to the same site. (Was it as fun for you as it was for me?) Anyway, that's where i found the 55-75% numbers for the normal range.

    Pam: I had an echo this week and all the tech would tell me is that my ejection fraction is in the low 50's as i stated in my post. I won't have the actual report for a few days. But i have to ask... what made you think i would simply pull my ejection fraction number out of the sky? LoL. It might be fun i guess... but i do have other hobbies.

    Let me rephrase my original question: If 55 to 75% is the good range for a normal heart, then is there a higher range that is normal for an HCM heart? This is basically what Pam said in her post that caused me to think that my EF in the low 50's might be considered low for an HCM'er.

    Thanks,

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Stuart Schwartz
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Guys,

    I thought my Cario told me that the heart pumps 60% of the volume of blood that is in the heart on evry pump. It is just that an HCM heart needs to exert more presure to accomplish the same?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pam Alexson
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Thanks Burt , That's it in a nut shell! Nighty Night . Pam

    Leave a comment:


  • Burton Borrok
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Hey Gang,
    Look what I found

    http://www.chfpatients.com/faq/ef.htm

    and to all – a good night.
    Burt

    Leave a comment:


  • Pam Alexson
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Jim , is it really 50% or are you just pulling that # out of the sky?

    Yes unless my nursing experience just went hoopy and after today I could be a liitle off my rocker. Ejection fraction is the % of blood ejected with the contraction of the heart. I would have to review again but 50% is what it is, 5% below the Norm value that you wrote in your previous post. I did not look it up, is the norm 55-75%? Mine also was 75-80% , I do not know what is is now 10 months post myectomy. Also other then to ascertain low EF's as with dilated cardiomyopathy I don't think EF's are of that much concern for HCM hearts. It something that non- HCM docs rely too heavily on when they mis-diagnose us and say, "you have a normal EF, your heart is fine. " Does this make sense? Pam

    Leave a comment:


  • Cynaburst
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Originally posted by mtlieb
    Pam: So if i understand you correctly... if my ejection fraction is in the low 50's right now (which it is), then that is actually much worse than a non-HCM heart would be with the same ejection fraction? Sorry... i'm having a 'glass is half empty' kind of day.
    Jim - I am not sure what Pam meant to say, but from what I understand, your ejection fraction is totally normal. Anything over 50% is considered normal, although many with HCM have one that is high...for example mine is like 75%. That means that my heart is beating harder than it should. Maybe since they took out the extra tissue yours is beating normally.

    Leave a comment:


  • MartinKennedy
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update-Ejection Factor!!!

    I will sit down with my nurse on Tuesday morning to ask exactly what they mean by 80% of capacity...that may help all of us.

    It does make me realize how much there is to learn about all of this.

    Keep smiling! :P

    Leave a comment:


  • mtlieb
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Pam: So if i understand you correctly... if my ejection fraction is in the low 50's right now (which it is), then that is actually much worse than a non-HCM heart would be with the same ejection fraction? Sorry... i'm having a 'glass is half empty' kind of day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pam Alexson
    replied
    Re: Six Weeks Post-Ablation Update

    Actually EF only answers to the % of blood exiting the heart on each beat . It does not answer to the actual amount . If because the heart is impaired in it's filling as HCM hearts are, the actual amount of blood is most likely not the volume you would expect. The HCM heart beats very hard to eject the blood and does this at 80%. Remember that HCM hearts often have higher then normal EF's and this is not an accurate assessment of the HCM heart in comparrison to a normal heart.

    Leave a comment:

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